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What happens when you belong to an organization that by belonging to it asserts your tendency toward belief that it is led by God, and then you have the audacity to not only assert your disbelief in it's divine leadership but also encourage and rally others into disbelief in an organized and public fashion?
You, my friend, have started a faction. Kate Kelly's mission to ordain women indicates that she does not believe in the fundamental tenants of the religion: that it is led by God. And if God says that men hold the priesthood, then that is what happens. As an LDS feminist I think calling Kate Kelly a "women's rights activist" is outrageous. The "right" she is arguing for is irrelevant; she could be lobbying for lowering the age to get a temple recommend or demanding that we all wear green on Thursdays and it would still be attempting to assert her personal revelation above the channels that are in place in this organization.
There is plenty of room for doubt. One might even oppose. But to organize a contrary group within the LDS religion is essentially saying, "I don't support this and I don't think God knows what He's doing." Even I, with my confusion about gay issues in the gospel, know enough to be aware that I don't know everything. If Kate Kelly loves this religion so much why fight against it's organization? Why skip a meeting called specifically to engage with you about your beliefs? It seems as though Kate's own agenda is far more important to her than her membership in the LDS church. And with that said, why not just quit? Or go start your own church where people can make up the rules as they go along? What type of person is she that she would feel the need to set herself up as the posterchild of supposed "oppression"?
The Mormon Moment may be over, and to that I say good. It's not a religion for the feignt of heart and we have lived through decades of bad press. We can handle it and we don't attempt to explain why God does what He does. The church doesn't excommunicate as punishment, they do it to relieve the individual of their responsibilities and free them from the promises they've made but are choosing not to keep. And of course, if Kate Kelly decides that she both believes in and supports the organization of the religion, she can try again. And again. And again. And we, even I, would have to accept her back into our congregation and forget her disobedient past.
One has to wonder what sort of experiences or mental state one would have to be in to essentially say "I'm smarter than the leaders of this church and God is making a huge mistake by not doing what I think is the right thing to do."
Ugh, the whole thing just smacks of pride and disrespect. You want to lead? Go find people who need your leadership. I'm cool with those ordained dudes who speak to God and I'm smart enough to know I'm not the smartest person in the room.
23 comments:
Amen to this!
You rock and you are awesome and you can express exactly what I think about the whole thing! Amen is right!!
At last - someone who gets it! Amen!
As always I love your writing, but here -- as an outsider -- is where I agree and disagree:
Agree - if Kate Kelly does not want to abide by the rules of her religion and instead wants to start a faction that opposes the divinely inspired beliefs of her church, she should not be at all surprised when they kick her out. As you pointed out, she was not booted for holding opposing beliefs, she was booted for actively recruiting others to believe the same contradictory beliefs. As you say, them's the breaks.
Disagree - If no one, in the history of religion, ever asserted their beliefs that the church may be wrong in their stance toward women, minorities, homosexuals, and, heck, even children, church beliefs (read, ALL churches) would be in a far worse place than they are today.
I walked the line in my church for years because I wanted to stay in good standing with my family and all the friends I grew up with, but there also comes a point where you have to stand up for what you believe in and accept the consequences.
At the end of the day, you can always become a Unitarian.
Amen! And thank you for voicing it...I am in full agreement.
Amen to this.
Love you, Nor. I don't agree w how kk went about this. However, there are lots of holes in the "led by God" idea. I've study a lot about LDS church history. I am glad I am no longer ignorant about things, but it has made my faith more confusing. And Bushman had a great quote about doubt making room for faith.
There are differences between the Church (Body of Christ), the church, and the corporation of the church.
--cat
I am not for her movement, but I'm grateful that because of the awareness brought, LDS women are more educated about how females were administering until the 1940s, we got women's conference as a result and it was CONDUCTED by a woman, the lds spokeswoman said we can and should discuss these things in RS and there is no doctrine against women being ordained, etc.
Also, I can rant/list all the changes in the corporate church's policies over our years that we not changed as we're instructed to change things in the D&C, ect. but I'll spare you.
I am an older LDS woman with a bit of crazy thrown in, I am a child of my Heavenly Father , I am very strong,I can take care of triplets and build a wall, but I also understand where I fit in. my husband knows where he fits in to! We all fit somewhere, our Lord helps us, guides us to the fit. I truly feel sorry for Sis. Kelly, I pray she will be guided back with a better understanding.
Lenore, this is one of the best responses to this whole spectacle that I've read. Quick and to the point. I love it! And I completely agree with you, which helps, of course!
Nailed it!
Amen to that!!!
Beautifully and perfectly said! Agree completely!
Yeah, this is pretty horrible. You're falsely accusing Kate Kelly of denying that the church is divinely led. Listen to her: she surely seems to believe that it is divinely led. And so this post is simply a dishonest slur. For shame!
Kate isn't asking for members to wear green on Thursdays. She's asking for someone to address the fact that inequality exists within the structure of the church, because it doesn't resonate with her personal relationship with her Heavenly Father. She is the face for so many women who feel the same, and this movement is more of a collective of women than Kate's personal project. It's important to remember that when people trash Kate Kelly, they are also trashing a huge section of their own congregation who agree with her.
Not all members are okay with the idea that the leaders of the church have an infallible connection to the divine. If that's the case, then a huge portion of our congregation should be excommunicated as well.
I like to think that there is a way to be more inclusive. I like to think that there's a way to understand each other better and hold space for a range of beliefs on this topic. I always felt in my bones that this Mormon church of ours was made of sturdier stuff.
You know, I think there's even room in the Mormon church for the crazy ones. The misfits, the rebels, the trouble-makers, and even the feminists. I'll even take the doubters, the women with pink hair, and even those who want the priesthood. The ones who see things differently. Those who aren't fond of rules, and who have little respect for the idea that God wants things to be unequal. You can quote them, disagree with them, glorify them, vilify them, or excommunicate them. You can cal them prideful and disrespectful. But the only thing you can't do is ignore them. Because they change things. They push the human race and their beloved communities forward. And while some may see them as the crazy ones, the disobedient ones, the misguided ones, we see wild courage and genius. Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can affect change in world and within their own religion, are the ones who do.
It's worth pointing out that God hasn't said that only men can have the priesthood. If God had said so, we'd be able to point to the revelation or scripture in question. Instead as the church spokesperson told Doug Fabrizio, there is no revelation and no doctrine on this point.
Amen, amen, amen to the last two annonymous postings! Very, very well stated and can apply to, oh-so-many, religions. Thanks for speaking out.
Nor,
I just found your blog and I have been loving reading it. Secretly, I was a little sad to see the wedding pics, because you are really cool and I was hoping you were single. This post however I don't agree with you on. I still think you're really cool and wish you were single, just don't agree with you on this. I really enjoyed the comments from anonymous who said "Because the people who are crazy enough to think they can affect change in world and within their own religion, are the ones who do." I made the mistake of reading the comments section on the story about kk on KSL.Com. I felt so sick about being a Mormon after reading some people's responses about how evil Kate is and it didn't help that I was having my own doubts about the church before. For a religion that teaches to have Christ like love for others we sure seem to fall short often. It seems to me that now is the time that Kate needs that Christ like love and support from others. I base this off my own experience of sharing doubts with friends in the church and feeling ostracized for having some so.
I could be wrong though. I've been thinking about the parable of the Shepard and the lost sheep. I feel like the lost sheep right now and I want the other sheep to come find me and bring me back. In the parable though it's not the other sheep that go and look for the one who is lost. Its the Shepard that goes, finds him and brings him back.
I guess my point is we need to be more loving especially when people are struggling. I'm not saying your post was rdue to Kate, because it was not. I do agree with anonymous that is people like Kate that will bring about positive change or revelation.
What I wonder about the supporters of this movement is when and in what way they have ever felt badly because they cannot practice priesthood ordinances? What ordinances do you want to do? Ordain women to do what?
None of you in your anonymous comments (which, incidentally lessen your position) have mentioned KK leading others toward apostasy. How does one reconcile that part?
Here's what the Prophet and Apostles say:
"In God's plan for the happiness and eternal progression of His children, the blessings of His priesthood are equally available to men and women. Only men are ordained to serve in priesthood offices. All service in the Church has equal merit in the eyes of God. We express profound gratitude for the millions of Latter-day Saint women and men who willingly and effectively serve God and His children. Because of their faith and service, they have discovered that the Church is a place of spiritual nourishment and growth.
We understand that from time to time Church members will have questions about Church doctrine, history, or practice. Members are always free to ask such questions and earnestly seek greater understanding. We feel special concern, however, for members who distance themselves from Church doctrine or practice and, by advocacy, encourage others to follow them.
Simply asking questions has never constituted apostasy. Apostasy is repeatedly acting in clear, open, and deliberate public opposition to the Church or its faithful leaders, or persisting, after receiving counsel, in teaching false doctrine"
The questions you've asked are good, because those type of questions lead to understanding each other instead of judging each other. The OW website answers them all, including tons of first hand accounts of women and the experiences which lead to their support of ordaining women.
These women want to be ordained for a number of reasons, ranging from: equalizing the male governing structure and administrative duties of the church, being able to bless their children when sick (etc), and having their voices be heard. You can read first hand stories on the OW profiles of hundreds of men and women.
It's a good thought exercise. What would the church look like if women were ordained? If women and men worked side by side in administrative duties and spiritual authority? What if little girls saw infinite potential for their spiritual growth, beyond birthing children? What if the language, budget, and examples of diverse and powerful women around them gave them many options of ways to fulfill their spiritual growth and relationships with their Father and Mother in Heaven?
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